Apr 13, 2021 You have to do a cost-benefit analysis here: the risks of not reaching herd immunity as fast as possible & allowing COVID-19 to continue to spread & mutate are far greater than hypothetical consequences of the vaccine in the long run. Herd immunity has to be the goal & if we want to achieve that, we have to incentivize as many people to get vaccinated as possible.
Apr 13, 2021 I agree. You can incentivize but you can't mandate something this new. I know the technology has been around for a while that's why I was fine getting it, but they're still working out some quirks so I wouldn't get mad at someone who refused to get it like I would if they didn't get their kid regular vaccinations. It's already kind of incentivized in my area. If you want to go to a sporting event in person in NYC you need either a negative PCR test within 72 hours of the event, 6 hours for rapid test or fully vaccinated. It's such a pain getting covid tests more people are getting vaccinated
Apr 13, 2021 I’m not sure what you mean by “quirks” but I genuinely don’t believe there’s any legitimate reason to refuse the vaccine at this point (baring medical condition). None. The concern you have of long term consequences is all hypothetical & the further out we go from October-December when those first vaccine trials were done, the less weight that hypothetical concern has. I think the government should mandate it because this about public health. The benefit of mandating the vaccine is far greater than the cost of some hypothetical future symptom that’s possible the same way it’s possible lightning strikes your house. I also think the CDC/FDA decision to pause the Johnson & Johnson vaccine temporarily because of 6 cases out of 6.8 million doses shows how seriously these government entities take vaccine safety too. People shouldn’t be hesitant.
Apr 13, 2021 If you think masks caused problems.....how do you think people would react if they are forced to get a vaccine? Half of the country would be on fire. Everyone is fine with forcing people to do something, until they are the ones being forced to do something they don’t want to do. And no, I am NOT anti-vaccine. But I see why some people have concerns.
Apr 13, 2021 I guess "quirks" is a nice word for blood clots/unknown.side effects... similar issue with astrazeneca as well. I believe a few EU countries have paused using that also. When I received my shots it comes with a pamphlet that specifically lays out it's experimental and there may be uncommon adverse side effects. I'm pretty sure legally you wouldn't be able to mandate people take it either
Apr 13, 2021 Again, we’re talking 6 cases out of 6.8 million doses for the Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine & there have been zero cases for blood clots with Pfizer & Moderna. If we take this overly skeptical approach to vaccinations, it would take years to reach herd immunity. By that point, hundreds of thousands more would have died from COVID-19 that could have been avoided. It’s just not worth being this skeptical over hypotheticals & symptoms that have smaller odds than being stuck by lightning. In CA, they’re already talking about on campus school in the Fall but you have to be vaccinated to attend.I would be shocked if they weren’t able to do this. I’m pretty sure they have the legal authority to. I just want to reemphasize, when I say government mandate, I don’t mean literally put a gun to people’s heads & physically force them to get vaccinated. I’m talking about restricting activities for people who refuse to get vaccinated. That includes attending public schools. Like I mentioned to @Trackz i think forcing people to make tough life decisions is a great way to encourage vaccine skeptical people to get vaccinated. If you have to choose between your job or not getting vaccinated, most people are just going to get vaccinated so they can keep their job.
Apr 13, 2021 That’s just trading a literal gun for a metaphorical gun. Restricting people’s freedom like that would still just as easily cause civil unrest. So just to be clear, you think people shouldn’t be allowed to be employed just because they don’t want to get a vaccine? “My body, my choice” doesn’t only apply to women’s reproductive health. There’s a long history of people being told drugs and other pharma products are safe, only to find out decades later they really weren’t. What is your opinion on people of color being more reluctant to get the vaccine given what has occurred throughout history?
Apr 13, 2021 How many people do you think would actually engage in civil unrest over vaccines? That is extreme hardcore anti-vaxx community behavior. That community is not very big. You’re exaggerating quite a bit here. Most people, if met with that decision, would probably just get vaccinated—even if they were frustrated/irritated about it. Yeah, I think the private sector, especially big companies should mandate the vaccine for its employees. Nobody is forcing them to do anything. Companies don’t have to mandate that their employees get vaccinated & if they do, employees don’t have to follow through with it. They can just find another job if they don’t like it. That’s free market capitalism baby! And I know you don’t like socialism so it’s weird to hear you say you would be opposed to private businesses taking such an action lol. again, we’re talking in hypotheticals. “Well they’re saying the vaccine is safe now but what if it turns out it’s not!” We can say that literally about any medication or food item or literally anything you consume. It’s being overly skeptical & approaching vaccines with that mind set is going to get far more people killed. I think mandating the vaccine one of the best ways to encourage African-American & other minority communities to get vaccinated! It should also be noted that willingness to get the vaccine has increased quite a bit among African-Americans since last November. The bigger issue here is providing actual vaccines to disenfranchised communities.
Apr 13, 2021 I’m curious did any of you have to work the next day after your 2nd dose? If so d--- I dunno how you did it, I can hardly get outta bed.
Apr 13, 2021 I didn’t say civil unrest solely because of a vaccine, but the mandate that would restrict people’s freedom could cause it. And yeah, you could totally be right about me exaggerating. But not thinking it’s a possibility is odd. I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you meant a government mandate that would force employers to require a vaccine. I’m not opposed to companies independently deciding. I just think there may be some issues that arise from that. Just to clear that up. It’s not being over skeptical. People have had debilitating and deadly health problems from drugs they were told were safe. Acting like there’s no chance that long term health consequences would arise from these vaccines is naive. Do you have a link or specific numbers that show minorities are getting less skeptical? Not denying it, I’m just interested to see the data on this.
Apr 13, 2021 Yeah but the people who would participate in such a civil unrest would be overwhelmingly people who vehemently oppose getting vaccinated. That’s a tiny subset of the population. Oh no. My original proposal was that the government offers a tax break to businesses that mandate the vaccine for its employees. Again, companies don’t have to take the tax break & employees don’t have to follow through (I.e. quitting). The choice is there for both parties. The government isn’t forcing anything. Yeah but just because this has happened with other drugs in the past doesn’t mean it’s going to happen or is likely to happen with these vaccines. The reality of the situation is: we have no reason to believe there will be severe future/long-term symptoms/consequences from getting the vaccine. This is all hypothetical & speculation & we can’t effectively govern in midst of a global health crisis based on speculation. Even with Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine being temporarily stopped theres a clear public health benefit: Over 100,000 lives saved from the Johnson & Johnson vaccine alone. That benefit far outweighs the risk of 1 in 1 million chance of getting a blood clot. Here’s a pretty recent pew research poll:
Apr 13, 2021 nah luckily mine was on a Saturday. They didn't let you schedule the day either they just gave you a date. Sunday was Easter and I couldn't make it to visit my family cause I still felt like s---. Even Monday and Tuesday, although I felt way better compared to Saturday and Sunday, I was still fatigued
Apr 20, 2021 My neighbor died this weekend after getting the 2nd Moderna. Was 65 and had epilepsy but had it under control with her neurologist for years. After the 2nd shot had a grand mal seizure and passed out...crazy
Apr 20, 2021 Yeah woman in Aus died taking vaccine too. All over national news and lots of outrage. Lady was in her 30s too. (Not horseshit balcony news from 4chan that @reservoirGod posts)
Apr 20, 2021 You're young, it's fine. And you've had Covid so you've got natural antibodies anyway. Problem for me is that my wife lives in Poland and the UK (at least in the short to medium term) will insist on proof of vaccine before being allowed to leave the country. Either that or a f---ing expensive private PCR test within 72hrs of travel and quarantine on return. And plus general holidays and also not forgetting I work in a venue that relies on mass gatherings where mass vaccination will make that so much easier to return without restrictions. So yeah, I respect your choice but not an option for me or my family.
