Jun 4, 2016 If the guys sober then yeah he's being predatory, he knows what he's doing is slimy, but it's not r---. The chick still willingly said yes. End of story. Its s-----y, but not knock-you-out-and-take-you-behind-the-dumpster s-----y because the woman still has the choice and by definition isn't being r---d.
Jun 4, 2016 If one party isn't consenting, it's r---. Weren't you just getting on Pato for "spreading misinformation"? Legally speaking, you're wrong. It's tricky to pin down. Like I said, being "drunk" is not, legally speaking, a thing. It's about relative levels of intoxication; it's about coercion (not just to engage in sex but to keep drinking); it's about a ton of different things. You're being reductive.
Jun 4, 2016 Dude, this is so, so wrong. Not just morally (which should be obvious), but legally. I would bow out of this.
Jun 4, 2016 I mean, questions asked during a trail where lawyers are meant to ask questions isn't really a scandal. But these sorts of frivolous, seemingly pointless questions are asked consistently in any trial of such seriousness. Not just r--- trials. You never elaborated on how our society is accepting of r---, but I agree that there are factors contributing to the fact that women are scared to come out. One of those factors, are people pushing the narrative that the victim is never believed. If a woman is told her situation is hopeless, of course she'll be wary of coming out. Having pointed questions asked during a criminal trail, does not mean the women aren't believed, but there is a process in place that is meant to be thorough. Innocent until proven guilty is a pillar of our entire justice system.
Jun 4, 2016 if she agreed to it then she is willingly consenting, being intoxicated doesnt change this not saying its right to get a girl wasted then take advantage but its not r--- by any means.
Jun 4, 2016 I just said that. If you're keep quoting me, don't do that thing where you say obvious s--- like you're dropping some unknown knowledge. We literally said the same thing. Unless both parties are consenting and aren't being pressed into consenting, then its r---.
Jun 4, 2016 Not gonna comment on the snark of "that should be obv" considering in the very post you quoted I called the act slimy, and you're just doing that thing again. But I want to know, legally, how two willing consenting adults saying yes no matter the intoxication levels is legally wrong. I thought it was cut and dry and if both parties are saying yes and not under duress then it's not r---? You're contradicting yourself.
Jun 4, 2016 @WPG doesn't this entire discussion happening now prove that my original post was correct? People have differing beliefs.
Jun 4, 2016 Yeah I am. r--- is unwilling sex. If both partners are willing, it's not r---. Cut and dry. If a woman gets drunk and says yes of her own volition then all that's happened is a bad choice was made, that's not r--- on the male part.
Jun 4, 2016 This is 100% true, but you're going through a bunch of weird hoops to establish the context under which your conditions exist. Do you know what you're trying to argue? I mean, the irony of this, to borrow a phrase, should be obvious. Don't lecture me about tone when you're decreeing that women who were r---d were just the victim of a douchey action. Same response for both of you: It should be very obvious, and very distinct, when a woman is r---d. The fact that we're having this argument speaks to our society disbelieving women and discouraging them from coming forward. It's not a contradiction at all; it makes both of my points.
Jun 4, 2016 f---in' how tho? You're saying r--- is cut and dry and only when not all parties are willingly consenting, then saying that if a woman willingly consents but is drunk that makes the man a r--ist (even if he's drunk too?)
Jun 4, 2016 First of all, I'm not attemping to blame only the male counterpart: Like I said, I believe both groups are wrong However, the woman is by no means "willingly" saying yes, she's not in a sober state of mind and shouldn't be put in those situations By using your definition, every woman that gets drunk are, for the most part, "willing" to have sex with males wheter they say yes or no and their cases should be automatically neglected by the judge Read what you're saying, not only it's morally wrong but also spreading misleading information
Jun 4, 2016 No, no it isn't. Last page you said it was cut and dry, this page you said it was more ambiguous than that. You're going back and forth and I'm open to the fact that I'm missing something but in order to enlighten me you have to actually explain things instead of just make quips. No bs, not trying to spin anything: if both parties consent 100% of their own accord, then it isn't r---. Am I correct, or incorrect?
Jun 4, 2016 You're being dense and imprecise with the scenarios you're posing. (EDIT: You do so in your subsequent post too when you say "if both parties consent 100% of their own accord....") Saying "drunk" doesn't mean anything, especially when you disregard how a woman got to be drunk. When one party is not able to consent, or chooses not to consent, it's r---. When there's an imbalance in mental capacity, it's r---, even if the woman ostensibly says "yes" or whatever. Also, you know what dude? I felt the same way you do now when I was 16. I know that sounds smug and condescending, but I'm trying to fill in gaps in your understanding of this, and I'm getting snippy with you because you keep reiterating yourself despite me repeatedly telling you the problem with your argument. Why are you being combative about this? Why are you, as a young dude who's presumably going to be in college or around college kids, not willing to listen to someone else? Why are you being so bullish about something you don't really understand?
Jun 4, 2016 Alcohol impairs your judgement. If you get drunk and decide to drive, does it not count as a DUI because you weren't in the right state of mind and shouldn't have been presented with the choice to drive? No, you still made a choice in your impaired mental state. If you make the choice to have sex, you might regret it later on but it's your bad choice that you made.
