Jan 6, 2015 Do you think an album like, say, Illmatic is timeless or a reflection of 1994 urban culture? From the sound, to the lyrics, to the style, to the overall message? To me, it's a mixture of both, but it reflects more about the overall time period. In many hip hop records, there are specific references to pop culture/political issues during specific time periods. You can look at a line from Big L in the late 90's, saying "Beavis, I get nothin Butt-head"... Not my favorite line, but this is a direct link to pop culture of the time. Or 2Pac referring to Bill Clinton and Bob Dole's presidential election in 1996 on How Do U Want It? Or Biggie referring to "slamming n----s like Shaquille" on Ready To Die. I mean, look at the style of rap and beats in the 1980's alone. Is that not a reflection of the culture and time period? Even the production of certain albums reflect the "trendy" sounds of that time period. Most likely, you can distinguish a beat from the 80's, to the 90's, to the early 2000's, to now, can't you? Obviously, there's exceptions to the rule, but I've always viewed hip hop as a reflection of the artist's current environment around him. Rap is more of a direct musical art-form than rock or pop, so there's going to be more direct messages and direct references to the culture of that time.
Jan 6, 2015 Nobody's arguing that contemporary culture has an influence on the artist - the argument is that Eminem uses that influence more than other artists do. Who wants to listen to a minute plus of a blow job skit (in general, really) just for the purpose of poking fun at....ICP, a group that was nearly irrelevant in 2000 and is CERTAINLY irrelevant in 2015. Eminem's shots at Tom Green and LFO and Pamela Anderson and Carson Daly feel a bit jarring today because they're people we haven't thought about in a long time, and serve as a reminder that Eminem had an unfortunate impulse to choose trivial, safe, inconsequential people as targets. It takes you out of the moment and distracts from the song when it's as pervasive as it is on Em's music (particularly MMLP). It's hard for music to translate well for future generations when it's filled with references they won't (and shouldn't) understand. I mean, yeah, 2Pac had mentions of pop culture figures that may not be around or relevant today. But Pac's art didn't consistently rely on current events the way Eminem's did. He made an entire song about Triumph the Insult Puppet Dog, for f---s sake.
Jan 6, 2015 You said something similar to me in another thread recently it was like "what else do you wonder?" You go to these quick-response handcuffs because you f---ing s--- at English hence why you like s-----y rappers
Jan 6, 2015 no they don't, did you think this was a clever retort? lol if the best response to that post that you can come up with is "you said we instead of I!", you probably just shouldn't even try at all. Or you could just dodge the substantive points and get laughed at as usual, whichever you prefer!
Jan 6, 2015 I totally agree with this. Eminem has done it WAY more than other rappers. However, I still won't discredit an artist for rapping about the world around him. Plus, I was a fan of his and hip hop during this time period, and I totally understand all of the references he's making (I know you do too), so it really doesn't effect my listening to the song. However, for newer fans, or future generations? I can totally see your point. In saying that, I'm not a big fan of Eminem's music in general. I can't relate to most of it, because, to me, it's immature and doesn't show much growth. So, maybe you guys are right, and Eminem's music in particular, did not age well. I really haven't thought about it much. I always just view it as, if I like an album, I like an album. If I revisit that album or song, it sort of brings a nostalgic feel to that time period for me. I don't necessarily need to relate to it, as the person I am today. But, when I listen to certain songs, they take me back to certain periods of my own life and own experiences. I feel that rap isn't made for future generations, but more for the now. (I say this, knowing there are exceptions) The only artist I see pushing the envelope for future sounds and styles is Kanye West. Hopefully that helps explain my view on this.
Jan 6, 2015 Aside from my still enjoying a solid half of Recovery, I agree with the rest of this, particularly what you said about MMLP1 Long story short, SSLP has stood test of time the best IMO; tis m'fav record cheah
Jan 7, 2015 Not to get into an ICP discussion since I'm sure none of you care, but I'd actually say they're more relevant now than they were in 2000. Back then they basically just got attention when Eminem dissed them. Nowadays they have an annual festival that always has some big name artists, they made headlines all over when their fans were labeled g--- members by the FBI, they were made fun of on SNL a few times and they have their own TV show. As far as how Em's albums aged, I don't really see it the same way most of you do. The only way I get sick of an old album that I used to like is if I overplay it way too much or flat out just get sick of that artist/band, but it's almost always from overplaying it. Em's earlier albums still sound the same to me as they always did although I'm careful not to overplay them much cuz I know that's how I'll lose interest and never want to go back. I have a weird strategy when it comes to listening to older albums that I like, it's almost like I've ruined some music I used to love so now I purposefully avoid listening to stuff for a long time so I can eventually go back and love it again.
Jan 7, 2015 Ive never experienced overplaying a full album, but i have overplayed songs, and so i get what you mean, i also have a certain strategy for playing songs that i really love, since an overplayed song that you really like is the worst thing...
Jan 7, 2015 i feel that most people who have 'over'played eminem, or dylan or some other artist whose music is designed to have immense replay value, to the point they could no longer stand them, never fully connected with the message in the first place
Jan 7, 2015 I'd argue that their fests and their "juggalos" are more relevant and "famous" than the actual group. Interesting point that SSLP is really the one that is the most listenable nowadays because it doesn't include as many pop culture references. Ask me 10 years ago, and SSLP is next to least favorite album. As a 32 year old, I really cringe at listening to the old albums - including MMLP and TES. Even they aren't good anymore. I'm not doing drugs and mad at my parents and the world.
Jan 7, 2015 The first 3 albums are all classics. There's no changing that. They've all aged great. Encore is better than we originally gave it credit for. It was just a shock when it first came out because it was the first time we heard bad songs from Eminem. Yes this album has a handful of terrible tracks but it has a handful of undeniable classics too and the rest is decent as well. It's a shame to think how great this could have been if Straight From The Lab never leaked. Relapse has not aged well. I forced myself to like it when I first heard it, probably because I was just so excited to hear a new Eminem album for the first time in five years. But once the newness faded it was obvious that this was (and still is) the worst album of his career. Recovery has aged great. It still sounds just as new and fresh as it did when it first leaked five years ago. This is still easily the best thing Em has done since 8 Mile. Probably my personal favorite album of his. MMLP2 has aged horribly. There was a jolt of excitement when it first leaked (I remember everybody on SL calling it a classic) but that faded quickly after a few months. It's not his worst album. But it is definitely his most average, meaningless, and forgettable one.
Jan 7, 2015 completely agree except i love beautiful and my darling This is still easily the best thing Em has done since 8 Mile. Probably my personal favorite album of his. i feel this way about xv MMLP2 has aged horribly. There was a jolt of excitement when it first leaked (I remember everybody on SL calling it a classic) but that faded quickly after a few months. It's not his worst album. But it is definitely his most average, meaningless, and forgettable one. agree mostly, with the exception of bad guy, rhyme or reason, legacy, rap god, evil twin, don't front and the bonus disc
Jan 7, 2015 - Bad Guy's final verse is one of the greatest moments of his career. Probably the best verse since his comeback. The rest of the song is very VERY forgettable. - Rhyme Or Reason is one of the worst songs of his career. I absolutely can't stand any of the Rick Rubin classic rock songs on this album. - Legacy is easily a Top 3 song on MMLP2. It's great. This song would've fit right in on Recovery. - Rap God is pretty good. That third verse is absolutely amazing. - Evil Twin is... meh. Very very average and forgettable. - Don't Front is atrocious. Might be the worst beat he's ever rapped over. - The bonus disc is actually better than most of the material that made the final album. Beautiful Pain is easily the best song from the MMLP2 batch.
