Nov 29, 2017 @Charlie Work the thread is moving fast so I'm just gonna add onto the Kendrick point here: the catalog is really great, but precisely how great are we talking? Like, I love good kid and think it's a masterpiece. But is it a masterpiece of, you know, Aquemini order? Either of Big's albums? To me, it's just a little behind. I think he's gonna be an all-time top-25 guy when all is said and done but so far I'm not positive he's been the best rapper in L.A. this decade.
Nov 29, 2017 Humble Beast did 20k first week. Vert did 125k. Idk man, I feel like a dinosaur when I talk to my little brother about what him and his friends are listening to.
Nov 29, 2017 yeah of course u can call Biggie the goat. He is one of the goats anyway but if u say he is the goat. Naaah I just disagree. And as for Ready To Die, It's definitely top 10 album ever but Life After Death, I personally think there are few fillers on that one. But that's just me. And even though I like listenin' to Biggie a lot more than Pac, I have always felt like songs like Dear Mama, Keep Ya Head Up were a lot meaningful than any song by Biggie.
Nov 29, 2017 I'm approaching this conversation from outside of my own tastes. Again, the masses would tell you GKMC is on par with those. I have confidence in that much. For an analogy, I think GOAT is more akin to IMDB top 250 than BFI Sight & Sound.
Nov 29, 2017 Definitely, there's a lot of popular rap right now that doesn't fit into more traditional ideas of what was great rapping, but what I'm saying is that the way the definition expands is usually by people pushing at the definitional edges, not by simply lowering the standards. That's why Keef's mastery of his style (or Lil B's of his) will be well-regarded by critics in ten years. But I don't think, like, Lil Pump is going to be canonized, and I don't think that there's any sort of general degradation that retroactively turns Kanye into Aceyalone. (I know you're not exactly arguing that latter point, I'm just trying to clarify my position.) Obviously, the point that underlies my whole argument is that while Kanye certainly challenged ideas of what it meant and looked like to be a rap star, he wasn't exactly an innovative rapper.
Nov 29, 2017 So what album would you say is the Shawshank Redemption (the #1 film on IMDB that has been for years if I recall correctly) of rap? ie, mainstream and great in its own right but not something anyone who's spent serious time with the genre would pick as "the best."
Nov 29, 2017 It's so strange that Illmatic has become what it is. It really is that great––I don't know how you could leave it outside of your top five––but it's so narrow.
Nov 29, 2017 Its crazy how overrated Shawshank has become btw but thats a different convo for another thread
Nov 29, 2017 I love Jay, and I usually have this debate when thinking of who I consider the GOAT. I think he'll go down as the best rapper of all time when all is said and done. But I also think he did have some lows (Kingdom Come, MCHG). But I agree, he's barely had the problems Em is facing currently of having mediocre albums with some good songs sprinkled in. Tbh even if Em had been consistent I think in the end I'd consider Jay the GOAT regardless, because of his longevity, also because he embodies so many things that Hip-Hop was founded on. He was a hustler. He had that killer instinct. He had the talent. He does everything a rapper should do. And he's done it to the degree that very few others have done it. TLDR: JAY Z IS HIP HOP AND IS THE GOAT. on a side note, I never liked putting Big in my top 5, his two solo albums are great and I think Life After Death is incredible. But he only did TWO albums. I put Pac in my top 5 cause he had 5 very consistent very great albums.
Nov 29, 2017 My inner Kanye stan wants to say no to this, but I also see where you're coming from. I think the difference is that you could reasonably find MBDTF on a top 10-25 list, but I doubt any serious film critic would have shawshank on their top 10 or 25 of all time...but film has also been around a lot longer.
Nov 29, 2017 Shawshank is such an overrated movie. Like it was good but don't paint it to be what its not. I would take so many films over Shawshank
