May 20, 2015

Yeah man, ofc I did. I'd say that Garrincha was a h--- of player and could be included, same with Rivelino later; I'm not saying that Pele won it all by himself, but imo he's definitely better and more important than the others player we can mention.

Also, all the greats had good/great teammates to support them; Messi had Xavi and Iniesta at their peak, Zidane had Makelele etc (in 1998 ofc, in 2006 he carried france on his own), Maradona had Valdano, Ruggeri, god; Cruyff had an amazing team as well. I think they're best their team had to offer.

 

May 21, 2015

I'm not criticizing him for playing along with great players, like you pointed out most great players have played along other greats. I'm just saying, it can be argued that he wasn't the best player in any of the World Cup tournaments he participated in. You have to remember, we really don't have footage of the 58' World Cup so we just have to go with what was told. After the conclusion of the 58' World Cup Didi was voted best player not Pele. It really wasn't till 1970 when Pele's story of a hard upcoming came out and the video footage was more accessible that he started to become this star figure. I guess my point is I think since a lot of Pele's career is kind of a mystery due to video footage not really being that available helps his GOAT status. It's like he's almost become this folk tail figure over the decades, people telling different stories of him and how great he was and that's really all we have to go by outside of the little video footage that there is of him.

With other great players like Maradona, Zidane, Messi, Ronaldo etc. most of their careers have been caught on footage. We've witnessed them strive but also struggle, so we're much more knowledgeable of them as players. With Pele we kind of just have to go with what the folk tails state, he carried Brazil to 3 World Cups, he was the greatest dribbler of all time, etc.

 

May 21, 2015

You're not wrong about this, but there are stats even for the 1958 wc and Pele had scored a goal vs Wales (the only goal in that game), he scored a hat trick in the next game vs France (they were winning 2-1 in the first half, and then he scored 3 goals) and then he scored 2 goals in the 5-2 vs Sweeden in Stockholm, in the final; he was just 17 years old lol. And in the most important games of the tournament he scored in the 1-0 quarterfinal, 3 goals in the next game after his team was ahead with just 2-1, and scored twice in the final. I don't know if he was the most important player for his team in that tournament, but he certainly did things that most of the players can't do in their entire career.

In 1962 he got injured, he had scored and played well before that, Garrincha carried the team mainly.

In 1966 he also got injured very early in the tournament and they were eliminated fast, he managed to score before that (he had scored in 3 consecutive wc's)

In 1970 they won again and he even received the golden ball. And all these years he had a great career in Santos. And there are documentaries with some footage and mainly interviews etc from these years. I mean ofc he's glorified like none other in his team (and in general, except from Maradona) but this happened for a reason imo. He was the definition of wonderkid, and he carried his team as a more mature player 3 wc's later.

 

May 22, 2015

 

May 22, 2015