Apr 22, 2015

No duuuude writings main purpose is always to convey an intended message or aesthetic or illicit some sort of visceral reaction

This can be done in an endless amount of ways. Ways that can't be reduced to being critiqued based on how they read off paper

 

Apr 22, 2015

this is reductive and at best only partially true

 

Apr 22, 2015

Yeahhh we're just going to keep going in circles here lol
Writing can convey whatever message you want it to, if it's well written. How well that writing is executed in the music creates other reactions, but at that point we wouldn't be having a conversation about the writing.

 

Apr 22, 2015

I don't think I'm oversimplifying at all. I definitely think writing can be looked at and judged as a separate entity from the actual music.

 

Apr 22, 2015

that's lunacy. lyrics are written to be part of a song.

 

Apr 22, 2015

Well we're not talking about judging the song here, we're talking about judging only the writing.
Can you not judge a beat independently because it's meant to be part of the song? Yes, you can. That doesn't tell you whether it's a good song or not, but you can critically look at the beat separately as you can the writing.

 

Apr 22, 2015

okay but you're still dismissing a complement of writing which is the context -- and this includes the persona of the artist, the purpose of the track its on, the album its on etc etc etc.

not saying you can't determine if something is quality writing or not by just reading lyrics removed from the overall song, but if you arent accounting for all those aforementioned aspects, you're being disingenuous in your critique

 

Apr 22, 2015

okay, then the question becomes, well...why? if the writing is good for a song who cares if it would be good independently?

 

Apr 22, 2015

Maybe I'm missing something, but appreciating writing independently is a tried and true way of realizing an artists' merit. You get beyond the braggadocio/persona/politics by reading the song's lyrics, maybe you come to have a new appreciation of the performer. (i.e. all those scenes of parents realizing the sensitive poet within each rock star, etc)

 

Apr 22, 2015

@WPG where is your review?

 

Apr 22, 2015

How is it a tried and true way of realizing an artist's merit? It sounds like what you're describing is a case by case method of individuals reconciling their initial stigmas or differences with an artist

It's not to the artist to pander to that. Thug doesnt need to sit on rap genius and explain his thought process for each verse or how "i like fish and water im a bear" is awesome, colorful imagery, as well as a play on serving drugs and getting laid lol

And ESPECIALLY for an artist like Thug, who's writing is drenched in slang, obscured by delivery, lost in a muddled array of references, reading it off paper doesnt mean anything.

If it helps you appreciate him more, cool, but using it as way to fault the artist doesn't seem like sound reasoning to me at ALL

 

Apr 22, 2015

wheres your review of my review m8

 

Apr 22, 2015

it goes up tomorrow. so does p4k.

 

Apr 22, 2015

 

Apr 22, 2015

 

Apr 22, 2015

I dont believe the persona, purpose of song, album is on, change the fact that something is written poorly. I thought the argument that someone else made about those certain lines showing his character were just another excuse.
Your right it is about the context. However, if we go back to my example of the beat, there's certain things that compliment even a bad beat well and make the song overall sound good. That still does not make that beat a good beat, it just means there's other qualities that sort of make up for the lack of quality in that area. Which i guess bring us to wpg's comment.

My response to this would be that it could be a much better song with better writing. At least to me it would. The lines we're all referring to as bad are overshadowed by his ability to make them sound good. If his writing was improved, that would just add another layer of greatness to an already good song. My point being that there's flaws in his music. My reason for even bringing this up was that it seemed to me like the people that were really riding for his music were ignoring these flaws or excusing them because of the idea that they were accounted for.

 

Apr 22, 2015

but why does more clever, or more intricate, or whatever you think is better = higher quality?

would old man and the sea be a better novel by principle if it had more colorful and wordy writing? lol...what im not getting is why you think there's a set structure for what's great or poor writing

well i get it, its what we've all been kind of conditioned to think, but itsnt true.

 

Apr 22, 2015

Well, i thought we had agreed and had moved on from this part of the conversation, but if we haven't then there's not much more to be said. If you think the lines we've been discussing are examples of good writing, then there's not much that i can say about that.

 

Apr 22, 2015

What? I'm saying it's pretty common to get distracted by an artist's theatricality and overlook the subtlety or deft touch (or whatever) of their lyrics. That may not apply to thugger but frankly, you guys boasting about his writing ability, then saying you can only appreciate his gift under a specific context (while not listing any examples) feels like a reach.

Yes, he shouldn't pander, but its absolutely on his defenders to lol. you can't make argument about context without any actual context lol. "blah blah rap genius"

edit: im not saying you should read straight lyrics out of context in an effort to discredit an artist. im saying it can be a tool to appreciate an artist more

 

Apr 22, 2015

This would probably turn into another discussion in itself but I think that form of intricate writing is still what I would consider a benchmark for rap's pinnacles. Imagine some of the most celebrated work in hip-hop without the vivid imagery/lyricism along with the intended narratives. Likewise I do agree that writing can be varied and thoroughly enjoyed through different scopes & examinations. I can't imagine how a Diplomats record would have been without Killa Cam's charismatic lyrics.