Jun 23, 2017 yeah his stance on police is very weird. like fair enough i call em pigs and will avoid them at any cost because where I live, they in general are just c----. But my stance is that the institution itself isn't run well - I'm very vocal, but i'd never say that all cops are bad people because they chose to be police lmfao. I highly doubt a music reviewer would be doing any kind of crimes to warrant being mistreated by cops, so all i can imagine was that Paul was stopped in his PT cruiser for a random DUI test and the cop wasn't friendly to him, so now he gives them bad reviews online.
Jun 23, 2017 You're framing police in a way that makes it real easy for people to not take your argument seriously. All I said in the first place was that your finger pointing neither explains nor improves the situation. Which makes it the wrong conversation. Stop making it harder for the two sides to understand each other. You're escalating the same fuckery you're finger wagging at.
Jun 24, 2017 first of all let me say how sorry i am that you were home on a saturday night complaining about me i frankly am not worried what you thought of my post. there are thousands of people and many serious organizations all over the country working toward an eventual goal of police abolition how is the wrong conversation? the conversation i guided us into was about abolition vs. reform, which is a pretty thorny issue, don't you think? this is idiotic "gotta hear both sides" nonsense. there's nothing i don't "understand" on the other side of this. and no, i'm sorry, complaining about police tactics is not the same as cops murdering people.
Jun 24, 2017 I wasn't talking about my opinion of your post. I was (clearly) talking about the effect comments like yours have on the national discourse. Police abolition and reform is the right conversation. "Every cop is a bad person" doesn't belong. Keep the overly emotional generalizations out of it unless you want Blue Lives Matter people to point and say to people on the fence, "see how f---ing stupid they are?" You made a legitimate point of view look absolutely ridiculous. What part of what I said reads like "gotta hear both sides" to you? Because you saw the words 'both' and 'sides' next to each other? You have a special way of picking out little phrases ("iPhone," "both sides") and extracting things I didn't say and don't believe. Who's not understanding who here? Keep telling yourself you don't have any blind spots. That's the best way to approach a complex issue. By the way, I've said in other threads that I think the police force should be abolished and re imagined. We don't disagree on that point. My point is that you should drop the sanctimony, because it makes that conversation harder to have. Stupid comments like "every cop is a bad person" don't serve anyone.
Jun 24, 2017 @Enigma why do you like this post when he basically says the same thing I have been saying for the past couple of months, but do like wpg's post saying 'all cops are bad people' lol
Jun 24, 2017 Because I can recognize both sides of the argument. On one hand, I know I couldn't become a police officer knowing how toxic the system is. I think there are much better ways to serve your country than become a police officer in 2017. At the same time, I do know people who are police officers that aren't bad people. Like I said earlier, maybe criticizing people who become police officers is too critical. I think it's also an issue of ignorance and people just being unaware of how bad the system really is. It does speak volumes to the people who are aware of how bad the system is and choose to become apart of it anyway. That to me is totally reckless and irresponsible. This is an extreme comparison but it's kind of similar to the arguments had during the Nuremberg Trials. Who's most responsible for WWII/The Holocaust? The Nazi leaders/generals or the soldiers who gave them the ability to commit such atrocities and followed their orders without question? Also, you've consistently used the "bad apples" cliche when we've discussed this matter which simply isn't true. @Papa Andy actually acknowledges that the issue itself stems from the institution. This is not a matter of "some cops are bad." This is a matter of cops being instructed to follow and enforce bad policies. P.S. I also like wpg's post to get under people's skin
Jun 24, 2017 That's what I'm saying about narrative. How many people who become cops actually see it this way? WPG is making the assumption that they understand it the same way he does, and that even though they know better, they choose to become a part of a toxic institution anyway. They actually see the story differently. They don't see the institution as toxic. They really believe in it.
Jun 24, 2017 Yeah and I completely understand that as well. There are people who really do truly believe that the system operates for the better good. Some times that's due to lack of knowledge and other times it's due to disagreement. There are people who still believe the war on drugs is a necessity to keep drugs off our streets (f--- Jeff Sessions). I actually have a friend who's conservative and he's against the decriminalization of drugs. When I laid out to him how it's proven to be ineffective, it's wasting our tax payer money and it disproportionately targets minorities -- he was still against it. His reasoning was that he didn't want his child living in a society where doing drugs could be perceived as okay. He also said he didn't want his tax payer money being used to rehabilitate drug addicts, he much rather then get locked up and face the consequences. So yeah, there are a lot of political and moral positions to be heard about from this issue.
Jun 24, 2017 Oh tell me about it lol. He doesn't have a kid now (or at least that I know of) I think he was referring to the future. Like when he eventually does have a kid.
Jun 24, 2017 hmmmmm.............maybe i was saying something extreme to reframe the conversation around my larger point--that the police force will always be impossible to reform because it's made up of this self-selected group? no? too complicated? okay overly emotional? buddy, you're the one who's been throwing a fit about this for three days you're certainly free to think that. i think you're being an over-sensitive wimp. uh.......no.......because you compared me criticizing the police to police brutality. how are you so bad at this????? then enlighten me. what am i missing here? you think a comment that's flip and to the left of all of this is the one that's damaging to the national discourse, and not the prevailing belief that those who are killed by cops should have complied? but then they're wrong. it's as simple as that. this isn't a rorschach test.
Jun 24, 2017 You think that's going to be effective for anyone who doesn't already agree with you? You're living in an echo chamber. You're the one who threw his hands up and said "f--- you" instead of making a counter argument. I've responded to your points as charitably as I can and explained what I think you're missing. You've got a funny idea of what "throwing a fit" looks like. You keep trying to make this about me and the way I feel. I'm talking about the way your comments are perceived by anyone who doesn't already agree with you. If you recall, I even started off my initial post by saying "I feel the sentiment here." It's not about how I feel. It's about whether your comment contributes in any positive way to the conversation we should be having. Yeah, you're not following what I'm saying at all. That's something I didn't say and don't believe. "How are you so bad at this?????" You can't ignore 80% of my posts, straw man my argument, and then ask me to repeat myself. I've told you in at least three different ways what you're missing. Read more carefully. Why do you think it's either-or? We're at a point where the one reinforces the other. Flippant comments on one side are going to create more flippancy on the other side. You're not actually trying to work toward a viable solution, you just want to say something extreme that's going to trigger the other side. That's what they do, too. That's the escalation I mentioned. Yep, they're wrong. But people don't choose what's compelling to them. If you wag your finger at someone and tell them they're bad people for being wrong, you aren't helping the situation. You're making it worse. And again, that's coming from someone who started off by saying "I feel the sentiment here."
Jun 24, 2017 virtually everything you posted was either a willfully obtuse misreading of my argument or totally inane. but as for these two sentences, i'm going to point out that you know precisely zero things about me and you shouldn't talk so recklessly about people you don't know.
Jun 24, 2017 If your favorite rapper is Eminem, its safe to say you shouldn't be allowed to be a police officer
