May 14, 2015 I think he means the extent of growth, and there really only a handful of shows that match BB in that regard
May 14, 2015 Maybe not by extent of growth, but that's only a byproduct of them focusing almost exclusively on Walt, Jesse, or Hank. Add together everyone's character growth in the Wire and accept the fact that it was necessary to split the POV so much for sake of the story, and you still have more character growth than Breaking Bad imo.
May 14, 2015 you dont know that tho do you until you finish the show and even then you can't guarantee anything. BB primarily focuses on Walt so of course there is going to be tons of character development. The Wire focuses on the character of an entire city. it's different.
May 14, 2015 I must be f---ing stupid, because I swear I thought the development of Walter White, Jesse Pinkman and Hank Schraeder was unmatched. Sounds like I was wrong.. but I won't admit defeat until I finish The Wire. Will start Season 2 tomorrow..
May 14, 2015 Right but it's important to note "more" or "less" here doesn't necessarily indicate the quality of said growth. The growth in the wire works because, as you said, it shows how the individuals parts have been altered over the years and how that translates to the big picture in the end (the city as a whole). The progression in breaking bad is wholly personal and creates a completely different viewing experience. So, as far as the progression on one show vs another, it kind of comes down to taste here
May 14, 2015 Fair point. Who's growth were you most intrigued by in the Wire? For me, it was Bubbles for sure.
May 14, 2015 I know that BB is clearly the worst. I'd probably rank The Wire above The Soprano, but I'm not sure
May 14, 2015 Whats the argument for BB being "clearly" worse than Sopranos as a whole? Aside from you liking the latter more? I kept expecting mcnulty to show more progress, but thats kind of where the wire excelled in its realism. it would be jarring to go form one season to the next, expecting some great character turns and s--- due to how the previous season ended, only to find out that everyones basically the same flawed person they were day in and day out. the changes happened in more subtle ways. change doesnt happen in sweeping motions like BB portrays (although that's entirely within their rights to express it as such...the wire just took a different approach). Omar, Daneglo, stringer, avon, cutty, wallace, bodie, etc all always had storylines/character arcs that i was really interested in -- even if they all didnt pay off. Some came to incredible conclusions (so gutted @ the deaths of the first 3 + bodie), but other storylines I would be engaged by never really went anywhere and thats one of my problems with the wire. it doesnt have the sense of satisfaction you get from a show like BB...its not meant to be written in that manner, but that doesnt mean I dont miss that aspect of being invested in a character. Packman may be wrong in saying the wire doesnt have as much growth as BB, but despite The Wire's admittedly countless engaging and dynamic character arcs, it can't match up to the best of Breaking Bad's in terms of pay off. BB is literally the GOAT as far as pay offs are concerned. they were stunningly good in that regard.
May 14, 2015 You might want to spoiler tag that stuff in parenthesis before Packman gets spoiled. And you're 100% right about it leaving you with blue balls on loads of characters and even the series as a whole, but that's life and part of the realism that was so beloved about the Wire.
May 14, 2015 can we talk about how unrealistic BB is at times?? what about that? There is so many instances of THIS happening because of THIS perfectly being in position or THIS character living because of some picture perfect situation. say what you want about certain characters "not paying off" but every character in that show has a reasonable conclusion that makes sense, IE McNulty being self destructive or Stringer thinking he so sophisticated Even minor characters in Season 3/4 such as Fruit or Justin had interesting story archs I thought. More so than that whor- Wendy who popped up every now and then in BB. could hardly remember her name
May 14, 2015 right but as a whole im not gonna pretend that id rewatch breaking bad 9 times out of 10 because its actually rewarding in the end, even if its in a really perverse and morbid way
May 14, 2015 I meant, in my opinion, the one I disliked the most without a doubt is BB. I still enjoyed it though. Right now I'm too lazy to explain my reasons, but I just think that the writing, the subtexts and all, are better constructed in The Wire and The Soprano.
May 14, 2015 this also may be an unpopular opinion but I f---in hated Hank. He was pretty obnoxious. I didn't think he was a great character really.
May 14, 2015 Shows dont HAVE to do anything they dont want to. Breaking Bad only appeared to be the same vein of "gritty" realism as the wire at the start because we didnt know what shape it was taking. It QUICKLY turned into something a lot more cartoon-y and almost like a folklore. And in retrospect, it becomes very apparent that this show was solely about the universe it built and the characters in it, not about some transcendent realism akin to the wire. or even the sopranos. I mean for f---s sake, the first 3 episodes include a derailed RV m--- van, a dead body melting through a bathtub/2 floors, a guy chained in the basement etc etc. Breaking bad was a vehicle to present the character of Walter White and those who he got in contact with. If those things you're pointing are still concerns for you after reading what I have to say, idk...all I can say is you're offbase in your approach to analyzing the show.
May 14, 2015 I think that was an intentional parallel between a person who does the right thing and is an obnoxious a------, and a person who does the wrong thing and is down to earth/likable
May 14, 2015 ugh this kind of criticism irks me lol. mainly because i think breaking bad is one of the most tightly written dramas of all time, without a single doubt. the moments in the plot you guys speak of are not only usually inconsequential, they also usually do have reasonable justifications (WAY more than regular tv shows).
May 14, 2015 Trying to assess breaking bad with the mindset that its supposed to be an ultra gritty/realistic show is the biggest misstep anyone can take tbh its a greek tragedy through and through
