Mar 4, 2017 Idk about it being subjective "fun", I am dead serious about the list itself I was just trolling you guys in the presentation of it. It's a list of 15 American movies by different filmmakers that are most inspiring to me at the moment. I really don't understand the notion that there is a definitive list of best films when there's pretty much an endless amount of great films out there, once you reach a certain level of quality, it's all up to the taste and personality of the viewer. A top 15 list should be able to say something about the sensibilities of the person making it instead of being a regurgitation of what general consensus is, that's boring. Just cause everyone knows The Godfather is a masterpiece, doesn't mean it's a film that's in my rotation or that inspires me on a daily basis. It would be interesting to know which films are head scratchers, I can already point out Spring Breakers and Blackhat; but to me that's just a case of them being too fresh and misunderstood, I think they'll be more widely studied and regarded in a positive way over the years to come. Along with To the Wonder, they are in my opinion, the American movies that are pushing the cinematic form into new territories. Cinema is in an interesting place, I find it fascinating that there are so many films coming out that are barging into my all time list, what a time to be alive
Mar 4, 2017 So here's the thing. And I see this with music, etc. too. "of all time" implies something, means there's a certain expertise or scholarly consideration, right? You want to own - or name the thread - that at the moment, these films are meaningful to you, fine. But there's this kind of "have your cake and eat it too" mentality with a lot online critics or whatever, where they're personally connected with something and want to elevate it, but when you question the thought process -- or if there is a thought process -- suddenly you're the a------ for picking on them. For sure. I still think a person should be able to argue objectively why something is great. Don't cop out. "this is what I feel" just kind of meaningless. But yeah, it's interesting how a film's reputation evolves. Like, the film doesn't change but what's culturally acceptable to cite without feeling trite is. It's a real struggle. Yeah, I'm on the record with my feelings on Spring Breakers lol. Its like anything else, kids are discovering something and immediately want to say OAT, when they don't have the taste or knowledge to make that assertion. (This is why criticism matters. They're historians and gatekeepers.) Blackhat I'm not opposed to hearing you out. just nowhere near my favorite Mann. Funny, I think most cinema pales to what music and television are doing (or streaming, if you want to break that out too, prolly seeing a 70s-like resurgence as Netflix, etc gets more powerful. "paradigm shift"). well of course. unless you get to a certain point in your craft i highly doubt you could approach anything like the godfathers brand of filmmaking. film is more accessible than ever which is why i suspect youre choosing stuff like spring breakers or tree of life (which i love) as a burgeoning filmmaker. that style of naturalism or verite or whatever is what you COULD aspire to. Surprised you don't have any mumblecore on your list!!! i'll take a closer look at your list later but a few great picks aside (Nashville is brilliant) there's a def time period slant to your selections. Not sure that's even a top 5 Coen bros pick for me tbh (and to your point, ok ignore the iconic films, which is a tad disingenuous but i get i, like fargo/lebowski) what about miller's crossing? carol over far from heaven or safe? meh. i dig douglas sirk too but there's soooo many incredible films from the first 75 years of hollywood, im just not sure i agree with that one getting tossed in. maybe youve thought this all through but it all feels v arbitrary to me like u just watched these or something, or ur too conscious of the "obivous" choices
Mar 4, 2017 But they are my favorites of all time, and I say most inspiring at the moment simply because my all time list is constantly changing based on what films I watch and how they age/grow for me. I think you're stuck in the mainstream critic mentality where canon is all that matters and you feel that to be scholarly you need to fall in line with those opinions, I think film criticism is pretty uninspiring at the moment, but there are some great writers out there like Reverse Shot and Kam and his friends, younger people who aren't stuck glorifying a certain kind of cinema and are more open to experimentation and pushing the medium forward. I honestly forgot what the general consensus was on Blackhat until you brought it up because most people I come in contact with in the film world recognize it as one of the great accomplishments of the decade. Honestly I'm not a film critic by any means, I thought I wanted to be but I just have no interest in it anymore. You write better than me, I'm often unable to express how a film makes me feel in words so that's why I've moved to expressing myself through making my own films. So forgive me if I don't feel like trying to convince you why I think Blackhat is a masterpiece, maybe one day I'll feel like putting it all into words. As a fan of Mann, it just feels like a culmination of all the themes he's worked with his entire career packaged in his most experimental form yet. It's like an expressionistic painting disguised as an action film, boasting the most riveting and emotional action climax of all time; I was shaking when I first saw it at the cinema. Carol is quite easily Haynes's greatest achievement imo, it's so gorgeous and where Far from Heaven was almost pure homage to Sirk, Haynes is able to make that time period feel real and lived in rather than look back on it through a shiny lenses like in the past. That's not to say I would ever disagree with anyone having Far from Heaven or Safe at the top, or even I'm Not There; they're all masterpieces from one of the greatest living filmmakers. The same goes for the Coen brothers too, I love a lot of their work; but A Serious Man has aged to be my favorite by quite a margin, I know @Twan for one shares my enthusiasm for it. I would never pick things for a list to avoid obvious choices, I just try to stay honest to my taste. Mulholland Drive is a pretty obvious Lynch choice but it's my favorite and it's undeniable how great it is, so of course I'm going to include it in my list. You really lost me at the TV thing tho, 95% of TV is such bland and uninteresting filmmaking that I don't even bother with it anymore. Horace & Pete was a masterpiece but ever since Mad Men and Louie ended, I've had a hard time taking any TV show seriously in terms of craft and filmmaking, s--- is all autopilot. Cinema on the other hand, has had an incredible year in 2016 and every other year this decade, there's massive films coming from all over the world, I have difficulty keeping up with all of it. As for what I strive for with my own art, I think my influences are mainly people like Abbas Kiarostami, Tsai Ming-liang, Kelly Reichardt & Chantal Akerman so yeah I do fall in line with a more stripped back, naturalistic approach. Mumblecore is mostly trash though, I'm good on that. I think the biggest issue I have with your attitude towards all this is that you do feel that you're above most people because you studied film and you write about it yet you accuse me of acting holier than thou in my statements, admittedly I have jokingly to combat you and others who waltz around like that. Just because your taste falls more in line with the canon/consensus doesn't mean that you are more studied. I may not be able to get my words out as gracefully as you, but I guarantee I am more adventurous in the type of cinema I watch and explore to build my understanding of it. American cinema is one thing, but if we were to start talking about the other very important filmmakers in the world right now, I don't think you'd be able to say that you're up to date on most of it. So just like, understand my point that I don't think that I'm right and you're wrong, but rather, we have tastes and interests that greatly differ and just because you went to school does not mean that you have a deeper understanding of cinema than me or anyone else who has taken it upon themselves to learn the craft on their own and built up an individual taste and sensibility for it. P.S. My new film, ICED, coming soon, stay tuned.
Mar 4, 2017 I mean, ok. So "of all time" is just a meaningless rhetorical phrase in this case lol. No. I'm not stuck in anything. I don't follow canon, or fall in line with anything. Hard swing and a miss here. Who? I know people in the film world who think very highly of it, and Mann, but I'd like to know who you're speaking with that says that and why. Back up your opinion instead of implying "true [unknown] cineastes" know it's a great accomplishment. But you said you do? Do I need to quote you back to you? And I mean fine - plenty of people would choose Blue Velvet as Lynch's #1 but ok. You can @ @Twan if you like to get his co-sign on Serious Man, I liked it too. But picking it as the pinnacle of their "oeuvre" just reeks of trying to be #hot imo. It's a credit to their deep bench, I suppose. (#actually Hudsucker Proxy rly inspires me!) I just find this baffling. TV is telling way more interesting stories than film today, The return anthology series offers a wealthy of storytelling opportunities film is usually constrained from telling, the rise of streaming. I know film is still a very varied medium so it's difficult to generalize but it terms of zeitgeist - and not being dusty - I think the needle is being moved by other platforms. It's ultimately an economic question as well as I'm sure you're aware but the window for the traditional cinematic experience is absolutely shrinking.
Mar 4, 2017 Well, again, this is a whole entire discussion but I think there's plenty of great writers out there who do a very strong job of illuminating film and connecting it to a larger cultural context. Frankly "stuck glorifying a certain kind of cinema and are more open to experimentation and pushing the medium forward" sounds an excuse code for being pretentious without having to back anything up. "younger is better" u sound like the hip hop heads who listen to travis scott lol I'm not holier than thou, I write about SNL ffs. I don't care I "studied" film either. That only matters in this context because - without merit or even the ability to hash out your self-appointed bold and provocative takes on film - I've seen you multiple times try to shut people down because you "follow this stuff more". Do you? Oh wait, the people here who disagree with you just don't follow the "right" stuff, we don't talk to the "right" people about Michael Mann lls. Face it - you were guilty of this snobby attitude first, I just do it better. Yeah suddenly it's a joke when you've been called out and can't back up your tone. What do you think I'm doing though? I'm giving your message board threads attention, for the entertainment value. Don't get it twisted. Be grateful. Don't conflate the issue. You don't know my taste rly besides the fact, guess what, I'm going against consensus by championing Color of Money. (side note: call out Kiarostami if you want but you just got cyber bullied on your take on the weakest, most watered down Scorsese movie out there. Very sophisticated palette!) This is exactly why I've taken you to task. you "guarantee" - f--- outta here. And why do you get bragging rights even if thats true if you cant articulate s---? I'm not being a "critic" right now - just a person talking about stuff i enjoy. ??? I don't care I went to film school. Why do you? I legit was just asking you bro don't be so insecure. You can claim to be egalitarian now but if the conversation inevitably drift back its to some imaginary trump card you have "Trust me I know better." Prove it, or you don't. that's my only point. I've seen your trailers m8.......EDIT we'll see And I see you @Dew. write something. edit -- Bringing Out the Dead is dope!! Might easily be better than anything Scorsese has done with Leo. That could be #hot #vahn but I like these projects that are just... movies. They're grimy af, but also deeply humanistic. The Leo stuff feels too star power-y.
Mar 4, 2017 @Papa Andy get over yourself m8, I was being level headed with you and you're continuing to try and insult my intelligence. You're corny af for thinking I like Kiarostami to be sophisticated when anyone who knows me knows that I have had him tied for my favorite filmmaker for years... I was tryna be nice by saying that we just have different taste and interests but tbh you have a very limited scope of cinema in general, you thinking Kiarostami is super obscure and I'm trying to be cool by mentioning him proves my point. And while I said I'm not a critic like you, I'm still voicing out my reasonings I guess just not to the extent that you'd like me to. This is a waste of time, you're not going to admit to being full of yourself. Everyone who's known me for years in the film section gets along with me fine and knows I'm not full of myself or think I'm smarter than anybody. I've just been f---ing with you and WPG the past few days. Also it's funny how you're butthurt that Dew is taking my side lol, I guess you didn't know we're friends? At the end of the day, people are liking my list and my posts in this thread, so maybe you should just take da L here.
Mar 4, 2017 lol relax bro I was just using a name. Obviously I've seen tastes of cherry etc - just joshing you bc when we get into an actual discussion about a movie besides ::flames:: you belly flop. lmao how do you know? You want to measure d----s, give mine a tug. Who can I namedrop that will impress... you.... some pretentious film geek with d-ck to show for himself besides a middling reputation in the movies section of a rap board. Should I talk about ray carney? how about l'argent? Fact is I've exposed you for getting in front of your skis a bit, and now you're mad. actually I've been f---ing with you! lol, no. I take solace in knowing at the end of the day dew comes to me for attention and advice. you're both kind of derivative of one another though. LOL - I thought smart, cultured filmmakers wouldn't care about likes! See you wanted me in here to generate chatter though - none of these threads would be alive without me. I even began this by saying, i mean your list is fine enough i dont really care.But you needed me. I was actually being charitable, not getting into things I could. But keeping f---ing with me like we're equals.
Mar 4, 2017 Between Color of Money and Hudsucker Proxy, I'm sensing a very strong Paul Newman bias here... (I'm a No Country for Old Men partisan myself, but A Serious Man is right there for me as perhaps their most personal work and their most direct exploration of the themes that have pervaded much of their work. TV's serial and anthology formats have their own forms of limitations as well (e.g. a generally strict adherence to plot, particularly in drama, and a preoccupation with "what happens next" come immediately to mind). With that said, honest question, what TV would you recommend right now? It is dope and I probably ranked it too low! But...I don't know how star power-y is a criticism of something like WOWS which boasts Leo's best and most self-effacing work. Also not like Nicholas Cage in 1999, of Con Air, The Rock and Face/Off was not a star.
Mar 4, 2017 Well let me massage my point out a bit. I think it's one thing to have a star in your movie (De Niro was already an Oscar winner during TD and RB - I think it's a question of them organically working within the context of the film. GONY - DiCaprio is... bad. Aviator - slightly miscast, nevertheless a star vehicle. Departed and WOWS I'll concede to a point but both are still showcases, especially WOWS. It's debatable. I wonder if Departed (and maybe WOWS) are comparatively overrated next to Bringing Out the Dead. They must be/are right? It's also a question of tone. Idk, it's hard to sift through. I just like the sleaziness, and overall experimentation of Color and Bringing Out the Dead. Def, though was kidding about Hudsucker. Not a great film. I do love most Newman movies - though not his stuff with Altman. Yeah binge watching certainly has drawbacks, though I think the rise of bottle episodes, short story formatted episodes or even novel adaptations to be uniquely suited for the current TV trend. My loyal companion @Dew is right on Atlanta, OJ comes to mind. I'm watching Girls and Big Little Lies rn. lil man @Vahn actually brought up an excellent point about there currently being No show to fill the void left by Mad Men, not exactly. Right I get that. If I'm voting I might rank Barton Fink as tops.
Mar 4, 2017 My reputation on this site means nothing to me lmao; and yes I did want you in here to start chatter but I didn't think you would continue being closed minded af towards my choices. My point in mentioning Kiarostami wasn't to say you haven't seen any of his stuff lmao, it was to say that he isn't even an unknown filmmaker yet you're trying to get at me using him as a way of pointing out how sophisticated I am, but good looks on proving my point further by citing Taste of Cherry as the film you've seen lel. I don't care about likes, I was simply saying that to show that my posts are making more sense than yours in this thread. You're butthurt that I'm not getting laughed at for my choices and that you're alone on criticizing my list. You're being silly and exposing yourself for the self centered douche you've always been (s/o @Woody). I'm not mad, and this s--- means nothing to me cause at the end of the day, I will continue to watch and make films that inspire me and discuss them with people who actually have an interest in cinema as a whole and it's wide ranging diversity, not some goof who can't name anything outside of his film school rubric. No hate tho, all positive vibes. At least there's some rare discussion about interesting cinema in this section for once. PS To answer your question, I would be impressed if you can recognize the work of Apichatpong Weerasethakul
Mar 4, 2017 Nah, you're wrong. I was offhandedly citing a foreign director like that somehow qualifies you over anything. You can quibble with my pick - reiterates what a dweeb you are. Like the point is you're an insecure chump lol Clearly, you keep posting your dreadful trailers lls. LOL surrrrrrrre. More like I'm purposefully playing the bad guy and pummeling you for the no-talent wannabee that you are. guilty! s/o @Woody and anyone else. Fact is you want to portray yourself as some cultivated thoughtful cineaste and you're just pretentious. game set match. pls don't lol Exactly. You want it both ways. You know more than me and are sooo much more knowledgeable. Except when we have ACTUAL discussions, not d-ck measuring, you fail. Make another list! Cite another foreign director. Doesn't mean you understand s--- - I've demonstrated countless times I can back up my opinions; you haven't and now you're back pedaling. And like.... dude I graduated from film school like 8 years ago? I don't think about what films I saw there or what was discussed lol - it's not central to this AT ALL besides the fact you're insecure. Like, sorry?
Mar 4, 2017 wow, this is kind of a tour de force from @Papa Andy here-- a thorough dismantling that's nevertheless empathetic and level-headed
Mar 4, 2017 There's definitely a certain polish in his 2000s work, that undercuts films like GONY, The Aviator or The Departed. They unquestionably play more like other mainstream fare in ways that Mean Streets or After Hours simply do not. With that said, I'd argue that WOWS, which only feels more relevant year by year and still shows him to be every bit the provocateur, and Silence, a film that's so against the grain of current pop-culture taste, are as vital as anything in his oeuvre. Twin Peaks coming back soon!
Mar 4, 2017 Go ahead and insult my work @Papa Andy, you write about SNL and have nothing to show for yourself, you're desperately tagging me and others every time you write something cause nobody would care to click on it if you just posted it. You ever see me tagging anyone when I release a trailer or a film? No. I make honest art that's true to me and my life experience so it really doesn't matter to me what you think of it. This isn't a dismantling, you're just both cornballs who try way too hard to seem cool on a forum. Here's a link to my film for anyone to watch and confirm whether it's the trash captain awesome claims it to be.
Mar 4, 2017 i have no interest in shi--ing on you/your work i just think andy's been running circles around you when it comes to critical perspective, but by all means be as mad as you like
