Aug 6, 2024

We all know No Apologies. One of the all-time greatest Eminem songs in many o' eyes. This is gonna be quite a long post but I wanted to put into one thread all the info and discussion on this song, with it only getting its release years later than it was recorded.

It's a very simple drum beat with only a kick, snare and the odd hi-hat that simply loops throughout the whole track but it just about works. The rest of the beat is pretty much carried by Resto and his melodic playing on his keyboards. We don't know how much input Eminem had himself in any of these melodies or the main piano melody, in terms of humming etc or whether he just let Resto do his own thing.

Its almost similar to Girls, in terms of the arrangement, (Piano melody with a bass and drum beat behind it) which is the first released collab on a Cd by Eminem and Resto together. This leads me to believe No Apologies is a very early example of Eminem trying to handle the production all by himself (with Resto), without the influence of Jeff Bass or his usual drum programmer DJ Head.

When was it recorded?

I think the general consensus here now is that we agree the majority of this song was recorded somewhere between 2001-02, with 01 being the more likely due to the inflections in his voice. I think we can also agree that the final "hook" is most likely 06 Eminem. We also have 01/02 radio freestyles in which he uses both of the first two verse of No Apologies. This tells us that he already knew before the release of TES that this wasn't gonna be on the album, which is why he used the verses for freestyles instead.

But I believe it was originally @M Solo that presented a slightly different theory. The whole third verse may have been recorded in 06, during recording for the Re-Up. His evidence pointing towards this was:

- The lyrics "In mourning, so I'm warning you don't coax me" which on the surface you would assume is talking about Proof.

- The lyric "all they did was ballooned it" which doesn't make much sense and seems lazy for a prime 2001 Eminem to write. It fits 2006 Pillinem to write something like this.

- The lyric "I'm sick of talking about these tattoos cartoon did" which again, may or may not be referencing the Proof tattoo, although cartoon had done tattoos for Eminem years before too.

Solo I think claimed that overall the third verse itself was sloppier than the first two and wasn't as good. The only thing for me that makes me struggle to believe this, is Eminems voice. It just doesn't sound like 06 Eminem at all imo, even with him trying his best to imitate the voice.
In the lines "they can s--- my d-ck while I'm pukin" at the end to me is certainly the younger Em voice, not 06.

However, there is one very small part of the song, aside from the last hook, where I feel like i do hear the 06 Eminem voice. On the word "slain" from the lyric "til i'm slain cuz of some f--s infatuation" You can hear his voice go hoarse like it did a lot in 06-07, But i believe this is only on the backing vocal. So I think he did do some new backing vocal takes on the verse in 06.

Thoughts on this stanleys and any info you wanna add that hasn't been mentioned here? @StanSXN

EDIT: can any producers or old Triton users find the female choir sample sound that hits on the second beat of every second bar? Always loved the way they used that sound.

 

Aug 6, 2024

@Dope Edit confirmed it was recorded in September 2001!

 

Aug 6, 2024

I adopted the OP theory way back. It makes sense. We know the first two verses are old and don't have the distinctive drawl of Em's sleepy/fat/druggy era so can presume they were recorded much earlier. The third verse sounds like a pretty good impression of the style by an Eminem who is a little less sharp lyrically and a lot more burnt out.

I assume Jimmy Crack Corn is an older song as well for similar reasons. I believe the beat dates back to D12 World days. And Eminem sounds alive on that track. Everything else he spits on on Re-Up is distinctively 2006.

 

Aug 6, 2024

Well the theory is self-contradictory, since if the third verse is from '06 then so must the other two, since they're all clearly from the same recording session(s), or at most recorded within a few months of each other. Certainly not years -- they're just too similar vocally for that to be physically possible given how much his voice and style and even personality had changed from drugs/aging. The third verse doesn't have the "druggy drawl" at all. You're only hearing it because you're looking for it.

It's possible that Eminem didn't release No Apologies until years later because he wasn't satisfied with the third verse. Similarly: the LY Demo verses which are from mid-late '01. None of these verses are bad, but in general they don't hold up to his standards back then. Also, it's a myth that Eminem could do no wrong in his prime years. See: Rap Game and JBM (I enjoyed the JBM, but it's "objectively" subpar, certainly not MMLP material).

Or it could be that the third verse really was only for him, or that it was intentionally weaker lyrically because it was supposed to show a more vulnerable or "wounded" side of him, as if he's exhausted from all the scrutiny he'd drawn to himself. That's always been my take on it anyway.

Btw, awful thread.

 

Aug 6, 2024

I relistened to No Apologies and the differences are nowhere near as pronounced as I thought. Yeah, likely all recorded in the same period, prior to '06.

 

Aug 6, 2024

Could be @ 06 for third verse, since it was included on Re-Up... makes sense he could have been working on it, or it was unfinished, and he finished it for that.

But, the 'mourning' lyric I don't agree with. If you look at the full context of that segment:

"I'd be a savage beast If I ain't had this
Outlet to salvage me inside
I'd be exploding, soaked in self-loathing
And mourning, so I'm warning you: don't coax me"

< 'I'd be exploding, soaked in self-loathing AND mourning' (if I ain't had this outlet to salvage me)

 

Aug 6, 2024

I’ve never understood the third verse theory.

 

Aug 6, 2024

Hard to disagree with any of that.

In terms of writing, I always thought that: Verse 1, 2 & hook = 01/02'
Verse 3 and outro = 06'

Always assumed it was all recorded in 06' though. But you're right, all of the verses sound a lot more like younger Em except for that "slain" bit you mentioned. Impressive Stannery, Zeb.

Overall I still think it was probably all re-recorded at a later date but he did his best (and a good job) in recapturing his 01/02' sound.

The last verse is definitely sloppier. It's a classic song but there's a noticeable difference in the quality and delivery of that verse. Splitting hairs a bit though.

 

Aug 6, 2024

Y'all are really good at catching all this s---, I can only tell if something's an old recording either after I've been told or if it's a very obvious change in voice or delivery like JBM or is this love? for example

 

Aug 7, 2024

Guess we can rule that out then.

 

Aug 7, 2024

My view is that the whole song up until the last chorus is recorded around the same time. Maybe the third verse is lyrically sloppier than the other two, but it just sounds absolutely nothing like Pillinem imo.

There’s also a point to be made that the No Apologies verses were recorded on the exact same microphone as a lot of TES, and I noticed this a long time ago as you can hear very slight pops in his “P’s” when he’s rapping on No Apologies and some Tes verses. Will try to show more detailed comparisons when I have time.

 

Aug 7, 2024

No idea how anyone can think the third verse wasn’t recorded in an entirely different era

 

Aug 7, 2024

Great post. I've had this song on repeat since you and @BiG MONKEY posted the instrumental last week. For the last 18 years there have been a decent amount of days where I thought this is the best beat he's ever rapped over. And I'm with you that female choir is absolutely next level.

If memory serves me correct the first two verses, the chorus and the beat were all done ahead of The Eminem Show. The third verse in the outro were done late summer of 2006.

It was originally intended for The Eminem Show but they felt it would have made the album too dark so they axed it for Drips.

I know that Stimulate was replaced by Say Goodbye Hollywood but it's so wild to think that we were really close to a version of TES without Drips and with No Apologies, Stimulate and Say Goodbye Hollywood. Unreal.

 

Aug 9, 2024

Even if I strongly disagree, to some extent I get the tendency to think that the 3rd verse was written years after the other two, and so strong is this tendency, I guess, that it leads to the flight of fancy (honestly) that Eminem somehow managed to perfectly imitate his younger self for the ad hoc purpose of finishing No Apologies, or to the delusion that he sounds as drugged up as he does in "We're Back", as the case may be. But what gets me is the somehow even weirder view that only the 3rd verse was recorded in '06, and that the rest of the song (minus the outro hook, which I'm less sure of) was recorded in '01/'02. Everyone knows the first two verses were written (and freestyled) in the early '00s, but why not assume they were (re-)recorded for the Re-Up?

 

Aug 9, 2024

classic. One of my favorite Em tracks of all time

 

Aug 10, 2024

Decided to do a video to try and make some points but because my speakers are so close to my Mac and I was recording from my Macs own built in s-----y speaker, because I had them loud it absolutely overloaded the sound and the vocals sound super distorted and horrible which makes every point i'm trying to make here really hard to hear properly. But i couldn't be bothered doing it again so f--- it. (No) Apologies for the vocals sounding horrible every time I press play.





@henzINNIT @Disorderly Progress @Koke @BiG MONKEY @M Solo @M.I.C. @hargydon

 

Aug 10, 2024

I think he's saying "ballooned it". The press ballooned (blew up) this whole thing. "Balloon" can be used as a verb:

to get bigger and rounder, usually by filling with air:
The silk of the parachute ballooned above me.

to inflate like a balloon

to quickly increase in size, weight, or importance:
The rumours soon ballooned into a full-blown scandal.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/balloon?q=balloon_1

So it's a little play on words, and he's also using the word to mean "exaggerate" which is close to definition #2. Could it be that we've been ballooning the badness of this line?

 

Aug 10, 2024

I think you misread Disorderly Progress's post:

I'm surprised there was ever confusion about this part. It seems obvious to me.

 

Aug 11, 2024

The third verse of Say Goodbye To Hollywood is the best thing Eminem has ever done on wax.

I first listened to TES when it leaked prior to release >22 years ago. I played the s--- out of the album when it dropped, and probably revisit it at least once annually.

To this day, that verse still gives me goosebumps.

 

Aug 11, 2024

The first 2 verses and the hook simply sound so night and day difference to me both in terms of his voice/delivery and the writing that I simply do not even understand how anyone can think anything other than that they were recorded in totally different eras. It’s inconceivable to me. He was not capable of the voice, energy and overall delivery of the first 2 verses and hook in 2006. They had to have been done before the Encore era. The 3rd verse and outro are lazy vocally, energetically and in terms of writing, the difference is absolutely obvious