Pete Carroll's Decision Was The Right One

Started by Mike Tyson, Feb 4, 2015, in Sports Add to Reading List

  1. Mike Tyson
    Posts: 20,021
    Likes: 63,048
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011

    Mike Tyson big cuntry's alias

    Feb 4, 2015
    Or at least, this article seems to imply that it was. I know n----s dont want to read an essay so I'll post the most important parts:

    A brief game theory refresher may be in order. There is no play that cannot be stopped if the defence knows it is coming. If the Seahawks were to sign a blood oath promising to have Mr Lynch run the ball, the Patriots could simply throw all 11 defenders at him and stop him in his tracks. In order for a run by Mr Lynch to be effective, the opposing team must believe there is some chance, however small, that the offence will do something else. For such a threat to be credible, Seattle must randomly call a different play every so often. Just how often depends on how much better they are at rushing than at passing in short-yardage scenarios.

    ...

    Mr Belichick stacked eight defenders right on the line of scrimmage, ensuring that it would take every muscle in Mr Lynch’s body to reach the end zone. Mr Belichick’s trade-off was to leave just three New England players to keep an eye on potential receivers, each in man-to-man coverage. And the play Mr Carroll called, a pick in which one receiver (Mr Kearse) tries to impede the path of a defender (Mr Butler, an untested and unproven rookie) assigned to cover another receiver (Mr Lockette), is most effective against man-to-man schemes. Mr Carroll’s postgame assertion that “it was not the right matchup for us to run the football” has been widely derided. But Mr Belichick was clearly daring Seattle to beat him with someone other than Mr Lynch, making a pass more likely to succeed and a run less so.

    ....

    Had Mr Lockette secured the ball, Mr Carroll would be the toast of the town, praised for thinking outside the box and being bold enough to call a pass when everyone expected a run. And if the play had ended with a garden-variety incompletion, it still would have served its purpose, by establishing the pass as a meaningful risk and increasing the odds of Mr Lynch fighting his way to a touchdown on a subsequent down.

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/gametheory/2015/02/game-theory-american-football
     
    #1
    0 0
    Jun 17, 2024
  2. Mike Tyson
    Posts: 20,021
    Likes: 63,048
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011

    Mike Tyson big cuntry's alias

    Feb 4, 2015
    Basically what the writer is saying is this:

    Belichick and the Pats were anticipating a Lynch run, so they stacked 8 defenders at the line of scrimmage. The idea was that throwing a pass right there, even if it was incomplete, would make the Pats consider the risk of the pass option more seriously. That would open up a little more for Marshawn during the third and fourth downs.

    What happened was the worst case scenario due to an unbelievable play by Butler.

    What followed was 'hindsight 20/20' from everyone watching calling it the worst play call of all time.

     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
    #2
    0 0
    Jun 17, 2024
  3. Heisenberg
    Posts: 2,153
    Likes: 1,796
    Joined: Nov 27, 2014

    Feb 4, 2015
    Catch, set, release by Wilson and I think its a TD. Instead he went catch, 2 step, set, release.

    I get the call and honestly I dont have a problem with it. But if bivwas calling the play. I line up man for man and hand it to Lynch 3 straight times. Of course that is if Lynch doesn't lose yards on 2nd and 3rd. No one 2nd guesses it, if the exact same thing happens on 3rd or 4th down from the 2 yard line after trying to power it in on 2nd and losing yards. Id be considering that Im going to have 3 cracks from the one with beast mode. I like those chances.
     
    Jun 17, 2024
  4. Dew
    Posts: 6,290
    Likes: 11,059
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011

    Dew سيف الله

    Feb 4, 2015
    still. even if Lynch gets stopped...
    A. he probably does not fumble
    B. and they have another attempt.
     
    #4
    1
    Mike Tyson likes this.
    1
    Mike Tyson likes this.
    Jun 17, 2024
  5. Mike Tyson
    Posts: 20,021
    Likes: 63,048
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011

    Mike Tyson big cuntry's alias

    Feb 4, 2015
    The idea was to use the second down to spread out the defence. :idk:

    It was going to Lynch on the 3rd and 4th downs.
     
    #5
    0 0
    Jun 17, 2024
  6. Feynom
    Posts: 122
    Likes: 117
    Joined: Dec 18, 2014
    Location: Sheffield, UK.

    Feb 4, 2015
    At the time I felt sick at that being our last play in the Super Bowl, the idea of not handing it off to Marshawn there seemed idiotic.
    The more I've thought about it though I don't actually mind it, the 2 components that could be improved for me is Russell gets it out slightly quicker and Ricardo Lockette has to much stronger in that physical battle. Malcolm Butler basically bullied him.
     
    #6
    0 0
    Jun 17, 2024
  7. M.I.C.
    Posts: 3,086
    Likes: 6,601
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011

    Feb 4, 2015
    So according to him, the Seahawks throwing on 2nd down would have made the Patritos think they might throw on 3rd and 4th down as well with under 30 seconds left from the 1 and 2 timeouts? lol
     
    #7
    0 0
    Jun 17, 2024
  8. Charlie Work
    Posts: 14,879
    Likes: 25,813
    Joined: Nov 28, 2014

    Charlie Work Level 5 Goblin

    Feb 4, 2015
    Marshawn averages 4 yards a carry. He got caught managing the clock when he should have kept it on the ground.
     
    #8
    0 0
    Jun 17, 2024
  9. Piiizzy
    Posts: 734
    Likes: 537
    Joined: Dec 19, 2014
    Location: The Bean

    Piiizzy The Boy.

    Feb 4, 2015
    It wasn't Russell Wilsons fault. It was a great defensive play. Interceptions at the one yard line rarely happens, in fact it only happened once all season and that was the one to win the Super Bowl. Carrol wanted to run the clock, plus Belicheck planned for that play. That was just good defense.
     
    #9
    0 0
    Jun 17, 2024
  10. cdbleb
    Posts: 463
    Likes: 350
    Joined: Jun 21, 2011
    Location: "Murder Mitten"

    Feb 4, 2015
    They didn't have 8 on the line though, they had 7, as you can clearly see in this angle posted by @redsoxx


    Yes, they were in a variation of the goal line defense, but not as exaggerated by the writer. Had Carroll really looked at their defense and worried about them being in the goal line formation, how would that warrant a quick pass over the middle (Exactly where the defense is lined up to protect), as opposed to a fade route to either corner? The writer sounds like he's making excuses to make a bad call look "acceptable". Essentially there were only 3 options I can think of that would have made sense:
    1 - Handoff to Lynch
    2 - Fade route
    3 - PA roll out (Still a high risk in terms of actually scoring, but it keeps the ball protected).
     
    #10
    0 0
    Jun 17, 2024
  11. redsoxx
    Posts: 7,181
    Likes: 5,295
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011
    Location: Boston, MA

    redsoxx "What's my favorite ring? The next one."-TB12

    Feb 4, 2015
    Read like a book

     
    #11
    3
    Piiizzy, Tom Brady and M.I.C. like this.
    3
    Piiizzy, Tom Brady and M.I.C. like this.
    Jun 17, 2024
  12. Fitz
    Posts: 668
    Likes: 414
    Joined: Apr 14, 2011
    Location: Fall River MA

    Feb 5, 2015
    lol i hope we keep talking about this because I love watching the replay lol
     
    #12
    0 0
    Jun 17, 2024
  13. Boos
    Posts: 11,377
    Likes: 19,073
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011

    Boos Nova Nation

    Feb 5, 2015
    I just don't buy the logic of purposely wasting a down practically
     
    Criza Malone Hamilton likes this.
    Jun 17, 2024
  14. Fitz
    Posts: 668
    Likes: 414
    Joined: Apr 14, 2011
    Location: Fall River MA

    Feb 5, 2015
    I don't think people realize that the throw that Wilson made was an extremely safe throw...

    I can't stress enough that Malcolm Butler made a play that 95% of cornerbacks DON'T make.

    Usually, if a corner makes a play on that route, it's a batted down ball.

    EXTREMELY rare that you intercept that ball...

    Steven A's dumb a--- really said "why not throw a fade route"

    LOL it's more likely to be intercepted that a pick slant route lmao.

    God, First Take is so bad.

    If Wilson hits the receiver in the chest, it's a touchdown, Seahawks win.
     
    #14
    1
    Piiizzy likes this.
    1
    Piiizzy likes this.
    Jun 17, 2024
  15. Ryan
    Posts: 522
    Likes: 600
    Joined: Nov 25, 2014

    Ryan 6 God

    Feb 5, 2015
    I don't hate the play call but the throw was ahead of the receiver and high when it should've been in the gut area and then Butler has no chance to make a play on the ball.
     
    #15
    2
    Fitz and Enigma like this.
    2
    Fitz and Enigma like this.
    Jun 17, 2024
  16. Feynom
    Posts: 122
    Likes: 117
    Joined: Dec 18, 2014
    Location: Sheffield, UK.

    Feb 5, 2015
    I'm on the other end of the scale, I watched the replays during the live show and thats been it.

    My twitter and sports TV coverage is full of 'Super Bowl highlights' and I just can't bring myself to watching any of it, lol.
     
    #16
    1
    Enigma likes this.
    1
    Enigma likes this.
    Jun 17, 2024
  17. Enigma
    Posts: 15,143
    Likes: 17,747
    Joined: Nov 27, 2014

    Enigma Civil liberties > Police safety

    Feb 5, 2015
    Seahawks only had 1 timeout.

    This x100. It wasn't a bad throw by Wilson but it certainly wasn't an "extremely safe" throw. A yard away from the endzone, your receiver is running a slant, you should not be leading your receiver on that throw. That throw should be to the gut/chest of the receiver so a play like what Butler did, anticipate and jump the route, can't be made. Wilson made a minor error and Butler took advantage of it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the play call though.
     
    #17
    1
    Ryan likes this.
    1
    Ryan likes this.
    Jun 17, 2024
  18. Fitz
    Posts: 668
    Likes: 414
    Joined: Apr 14, 2011
    Location: Fall River MA

    Feb 5, 2015
    I couldn't deal with another BS Super Bowl loss.

    That Kearse catch would've put me over the edge to what I can handle as a fan.

    Tyree, Manningham, Kearse.

    Would've been too much.

    I don't blame you though, I don't watch ANY Giants/Pats highlights.

    We have to play the Giants next year. Not watching the game.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
    #18
    0 0
    Jun 17, 2024
  19. Fitz
    Posts: 668
    Likes: 414
    Joined: Apr 14, 2011
    Location: Fall River MA

    Feb 5, 2015
    lol I agree with what you're saying.

    However, most of you are not realizing how HARD it is to intercept that pass.

    Malcolm Butler literally made the biggest risk you can take as a cornerback.

    As the ball is snapped, he's breaking on that slant.

    Even if he's breaking on the slant, most of the time, you're trying to SWAT the ball, not under cut the route for an interception.

    Wilson/Carroll/Lockette are NOT expecting an undrafted rookie backup to jump that route, and even so, to go for an interception lol.

    If they did this on Revis, Browner or McCourtey? Sure, it's not a safe pass/play call.

    But, I think Revis actually tries to swat the ball away, not intercept it...

    They targeted Butler for a reason. They NEVER expected him to make that play, and I really don't blame them.

    Credit Butler more than discredit Wilson/Carroll
     
    #19
    0 0
    Jun 17, 2024
  20. Enigma
    Posts: 15,143
    Likes: 17,747
    Joined: Nov 27, 2014

    Enigma Civil liberties > Police safety

    Feb 6, 2015
    No, I totally understand the difficulty of the play Butler made, that's why I don't think Caroll or Wilson should really get much blame because at the end of the day, Butler just made an incredible play on the football that no one expected him to make. If I had to place blame though, it'd go on Wilson for making that tiny error and leading his reciever rather than putting the ball where only he can catch it.

    I think one of the main reasons Wilson threw that football the way he did is because Butler was there and he didn't expect him to be able to make a play like that. Had that been Revis, I don't know if Wilson even throws the football in that direction, let alone the way that he did lol. But Butler rose to the occasion and made Wilson pay without a doubt.
     
    #20
    1
    Fitz likes this.
    1
    Fitz likes this.
    Jun 17, 2024